Hi John,

I have looked deep into my imagination, and have accomplished a minor miracle. I have dreamt of a future where I cannot run an air conditioner on high, and must tap the brakes a bit differently. It is quite frightening, but after my shudders, I made it through.

Hybrids are a marketing gimmick. They are selling like hot-cakes, so the car companies plug them. Some of them work better than others, but the gas differentials are insubstantial.

However, I don’t find car company marketing quite as alarming as you do. I do however have a deep seated need for the return of “Rich, Cornithian leather” from Ricardo Montabalm ;-)

JBP

Would you believe that in 1995 I bought a Camaro Z-28 6spd (275HP and a stick, what fun) and in 2005 I bought a Toyota Prius? ;-)

I’m really the same person.

You should note that the EPA has a real-world mileage database now:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList

I don’t think I got the mileage they did with the Camaro ... but I was probably hot-rodding too much. Now I use my mountain bike as my speed outlet and putter along in my Prius.

BTW, the Prius scores better than the critics claim. For the 2005 Prius their real-world results are:

Number of Vehicles: 77
Average User MPG: 47.6
Range: 32 - 61 MPG
Updated On: 01/17/2006

That’s in-line with my own mileage.

The Toyota Camry is often quoted as a non-hybrid “equivalent” to the Prius. Using this new real-world source, we see that the (2005, 4cyl, auto) Camry gets:

Number of Vehicles: 14
Average User MPG: 27.8
Range: 21 - 35 MPG
Updated On: 01/17/200

Far from being a minor improvement, the average Prius is scoring a 71% increase in mileage over the Camry!

As it happens, I am a scientist ;-), and can comment on this.

There are two broad ways to approach this: One is to design an experiment in which you try to postulate the “typical” driving experience, and reproduce it in each test.

The other approach is to treat it as a data collection problem, in which you harvest the information that is already out there - in this case the mileage that people are getting in the real world.

Those two approaches are going to tell you different sorts of things. Certainly, when you are holding all variables eqaul but one (testing the same car with different tires) the first approach might be more stringent and informative.

On the other hand, given the vast mix of cars and real-world driving mixes, which should I choose as a (potential) customer?

I submit that “data collection” is the best approach, just because average real-world customer behavior with these cars is going to match my future behavior with a new car better than any EPA or CS test.

When I owned a Camaro Z-28 I probably drove like (some but not all) of the Camaro Z-28 drivers. I say that because I was within the real-world “range” reported by the EPA, just at the low end of that range. I just did not hit the “average” they reported.

When I owned a Subaru WRX wagon I apparently drove like many of the other Subaru drivers. I was very close to the “average” reported by the EPA.

Now, with a Prius, I apparently again drive like many of the other Prius drivers. I am again very close to the “average” reported by the EPA.

Not only does this method have a good scientific foundation (the use of not just averages, but varitions (and I’m sure in their private versions, deviations from the mean) ... it works for me. ;-)

(final note - the “experimental” method cannot give us “ranges” of MPGs, because it does not test (as does the “data collection” approach) a broad range of behaviors)

As a scientist ;-), I’d have to accept this if it was proven, specifically, that Prius owners were poorer at self-reports than Camry owners.

But I can say, based on my experience, that many people in all sorts of cars quote me their “fond memories” of good mileage. I know a former girlfriend of mine would tell people “her mileage” when she never measured it at all. She just quoted the EPA highway number for here car.

If anything the Prius, with it’s fuel computer staring you right in the face all the time, is going to trigger a better “memory” than the folks who measure their mileage now and then.

I would have thought that the fuel usage came from the injection & control system rather than from the bladder.

Ah well. I think your “self-report” criticism is the best one to develop from your end.

On the other hand, I think my best criticism of the old EPA method (and the Consumer Reports mileage loop) lies in the assumptions they make: One is that ever driver, in ever car, acts exactly the same way. The second is that the EPA/CR knows what that way is.

The thing I honestly like about the self-report is that the assumption “Prius drivers are alike” (or “Camaro drivers are alike”) is a whole less bad than the much broader assumption that “all drivers are alike.”

But I won’t try to force the issue. I think we have the criticisms outlined, I’m sure readers will make of it what they will.

RC, do you keep a nomal-in town log of mpg?

Or do you only measure while on road trips?

:-)

My thinking is that Prius drivers, if anything, track in-town more than Camry drivers. We also get phenomenal MPGs under certain road trip conditions ... but we’re not just tracking road-trips.

I could post a picture of my mountain bike in the back of my Prius ... don’t think it would fit quite so easily in either the Camry or the Corolla.

(FWIW, the government classes the Prius as “midsize”)